Welcome to Dr. V's grammar course 300-1 for education majors!
This is going to be a fun course. Let's jump in at the deep end right away: here's your first prompt, which will be homework for Wednesday, August 20th, in case we don't finish in class today - go to the following link
http://www.kristisiegel.com/engfish2.htm
Read the excerpt "The Poison Fish" from Ken Marcrorie's book Telling Writing.
It talks about ENGFISH, a common form of student writing (AND textbook writing!!) that you will encounter during your future career as teachers.
Your task: write a short blog entry about your personal experience with ENGFISH - are you maybe student teaching already, and have seen it in your kids' writing? Did they serve you ENGFISH in their final exams when they wrote: "When I came into this class I knew nothing, but this semester I've learned so much; I owe it all to you, and you are a great teacher"?! Or did you produce ENGFISH texts yourself in certain situations? What do you think about the term? Does it work for you, or do you think it is inadequate? Better suggestions? Or do you perhaps have a funny example of ENGFISH you want to share? How can its use be avoided?
Hint:
Your blog comment should be about as long as this entry -- if it's too long, people won't be thrilled to read it, and if it's too short, it can't contain very much insight. Consider this blog as a discussion board. You can offer your own stories, or react to your peers'. The only time you have to publish a longer article here is when it is your turn to summarize a chapter reading from our textbooks or articles I distribute.
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25 comments:
Marcrorie makes an excellent point about the importance of words SPEAKING to one another. When the words connect, the reader can connect to the author and the subject. I am interested in this "way out" that he ends with. Does it suggest new ways to PREVENT "Engfish?" Or only to reverse its progress in stifling the voices of writers?
I am also curious to discover Marcrorie's belief in ALL writers; does he believe all students lose their honesty or directness? Or only that they can and do without the proper training?
This article brought my attention to something that I did not know even existed. When I first read the word "Engfish" I was not sure what it was. However, as I read through the article I realized that I use Engfish! The article is right, books and teachers have students write like this. Students are taught to write using large, academic words, but not taught to use words that really express what they are trying to say. Since I have read this article I look back at my own writing and wonder to myself if I am using Engfish, and how I can stop.
After reading the article, I realized that myself and probably everyone else who read it all have been caught using "Engfish". I had a teacher last year who actually told us to use larger words to help us sound more academic. When I would write my papers I tried to place in larger words, but then ended up just sounding stupid. It really made me think that I should not be an English teacher if I cannot write good papers. I wasn't able to express what I wanted to say. I ended up just re-writing the papers in my own words and ended up doing much better in the class.
Like Sharon, I have also realized that I use Engfish. As an avid reader, I have picked up a lot of vocabulary and speaking styles from the various types of literature that I have read throughout the years. I have always thought that this was a good thing, but now I wonder if it has prevented me from expressing my true voice. Is there a way to mix the two, I wonder?
I enjoyed reading this article. I think it does pertain to high school and college students. As I was reading the article, it also came to my attention that I do this, and even though the third grader's writing in the article wasn't perfect, it was more interesting to read then the others. I think that as students get older they try to impress others with their writing skills, but then people don't even remember what their writing said.
Like everyone else I use Engfish too. I have to agree with the article I used it because the teachers wanted it and the text book used it too. I thought that was what a "college student" was supposed to sound like. I love to write and don't like to read a lot, but I love to write what I want the way I want. I have using Engfish and like Emily I wasn't sure if being an English teacher was the right choice. When I teach I want my students to use their inner voice not the fake one they think they should use.
After reading this article, I quickly found some of my old English papers to see if I had any of the symptoms that Marcrorie was talking about.
Wow. I was the King of Engfish.
I then looked at some of the more recent writing work that I have done, and it seems that I've gotten a lot better at avoiding it, but not altogether. Students are expected to make a clear distinction between how they interact in the classroom and how they act outside of it. This change of attitude seems to be carrying over in the way that they express themselves in their writing. It would be interesting to see what tools or methods are effective in preventing this type of writing. Did I just use Engfish when i used the words "symptoms" and "Preventing"? I'm not really sure, I guess we'll find out.
By reading the Engfish article I have learned I use Engfish in my writing. I do not put as much feeling into the writing. I need to put more meaning and feeling into what I write. By doing this the instructor and other readers will not be bored with the material and they can understand what I am saying and how I feel about it. Using Engfish is not always good sometimes your righting can get boring.
"ENGFISH"!! The meaning of this word is so TRUE! Reading this article made me realize that English has been taught wrong to us in school for years. I'm pretty sure everyone remembers their high school English teachers telling them to use bigger words, more compound sentences, or anything to fulfill the length requirements for papers. In doing so we learned the improper way to write. We may have learned the right technique but we lack in the most important area of writing which is EXPRESSION! I honestly think what Marcrorie is trying to say is that us, as young writers need to put more passion and meaning into our papers instead of the "ENGFISH" that doesn't do anything but STINK up the classroom!
More than likely, I too, am a user of "EngFish." However, I did not like the article. I understood the overall point that the writer wanted to convey, but I was not thrilled by its delivery. Overall, the content may be helpful when looking at works of our future students, but I think that I would like to find more information about the topic from an alternative source.
I think that it's amazing that students, including myself, add words to the way they write to seem more "academic". In all reality, we use far too many words in our writing because we think it's what the teacher wants to hear. We're so caught up in using what sounds smart that we just don't put life into what we say. I think it's important to write what we really want to say and not use fancy words to try and sound more academic. Learning grammar does, at times, make it harder for students to put life into their writing because they are worried about the technicalities.
I find that this article has opened my eyes to "Engfish". I never had thought much about what I would consider "fill" words. I do use Engfish in many things that I write and I feel that is what is expected of me from the teachers and instructors that I have encountered along the way. It sure would be nice to learn how not to use Engfish and get a long paper done to the required length.
As an English major, i must say, Engfish is a big part of my life. Engfish is what helped me pull off 500-1000 word essays. But it wasn't until after reading this blog that I was educated on the subject of Engfish. Now that I know this information, I will put it to use in my writing. My thoughts about being more direct with words were always in line with Marcrorie's ideas, but I was taught/allowed to do otherwise by all of my previous teachers. This is disappointing information to learn at this stage of my college education.
I have to admit that I had no idea what this article was going to be about just based of the title of "Engfish", but after having read it, I realized that apparently I already know a lot about it. I've been writing in the Engfish style ever since I got old enough to realize that if I used bigger words, I'd sound more intelligent. I really wish someone would have told me that writing like this isn't good before now, though. I've written this way for so long that I'm not sure I know how to write normally.
I didn't really like...well...I'm not quite sure how to phrase it. Maybe it's geeky of me, but I like using big words. :) I don't really get to use them daily, but I do like using them in my writing. Is there any sort of way to not write "Engfishy" but still sound professional when we write, or are we supposed to completely abandon sounding professional at all for a writing style that sounds more like we do? I guess the best way to find out would be to read the rest of the book that's not in the article. :)
At first, this article seemed extremely pessimistic, but then again the truth isn't always so hopeful. It wasn't until one particular line jumped off the screen and hit me. It was when the author talked about what teacher's do to hinder student's with the blood red marks all over their papers. The article serves as criticism towards the general public accusing the society as a whole of using "ENGFISH." Criticism can be perceived as motivation to better your writing.
As a resident of this area for over twenty years, I can tell you that Engfish is the official language of Southern Illinois. If I think about it further, however, Engfish is present nationwide. Engfish permeates our nation's media through the news, television programs, movies, and advertising. Everyone uses Engfish. It's the way we speak and, unfortunately, the way we write.
The idea of using larger words solely as a device for sounding more intelligent is a trap that it sounds like most of us have fallen into at one point or another. However, the idea of avoiding them when writing is frightening to me as a future English teacher. When I come to a word that I am unfamiliar with while reading, I find a dictionary, familiarize myself with it, and try to use it in conversation or writing so that I commit it to memory. If we attempt to avoid words that may seem unfamiliar or difficult to others, we may risk decreasing our vocabularies and the vocabularies of others.
I, too, am guilty of using this "Engfish." The concept that this article touched upon left me with more questions than answers. If we have been taught, in a sense, to use "Engfish" then why is this such a terrible thing to use? How are we supposed to un-teach ourselves from using it? And my biggest question-Is "Engfish" ever acceptable? Professional papers and statements usually do not have the liberty to use more colorful language or worry about their inner voice showing through. This is not to say that these papers have to be boring, but I think there is a time and place to really focus on making your inner voice shine through your writing, such as papers that rely mostly on point of view.
All that being said, I can see how one can too far with "Engfish." For example, combining all the techniques (that's the only word I can come up with) associated with "Engfish" constantly throughout a piece of writing is a little overboard. Bend some of the rules.
I had no idea what Engfish meant and I didn't know how it related to me. Even writing this comment at this very moment I am aware of every single thing that I'm typing. It has been engraved into my brain that carelessness and simple ways of writing are not acceptable. I thought that not writing like you talk was what every teacher and professor wanted. I suppose that my assumptions were wrong.
To be honest I never realized I was using "Engfish" but I do.... No one has to tell me to do it; I use it on a voluntary basis. I personally don't do it to sound educated... honestly when writing a four or five page paper using larger words take up more space which means the paper won't take as long to write. Maybe I'm just lazy but I love Engfish.
When I first saw the word "Engfish" I thought it was a silly word to use. After I finished reading the article, I have realized I use Engfish myself. In the article, Marcrorie gives an example of a student using Engfish. The student writes, "I was completely astonished." Not only was the writer astonished, but "completely" astonished. I laughed when I read that because it is something that I do. All my teachers in high school always told me to make myself sound smart by using big words, but this entire time I was using Engfish and did not even realize it.
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